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Sarah Trimmer's avatar

I've been reading all your posts on Indirect Costs and there are some interesting ideas and insights. I take issue with one of your first sentences "[c]osts are likely too high and are not transparent at all." This seems like a talking point I keep seeing over and over. Based on what I know from 16 years of experience in research administration (full disclosure: I am not an expert in how the indirect sausage is exactly made), it seems that the calculation that goes into indirect rates is fairly precise but very bureaucratic involving the need to hire "consultants". The amount of time we waste on building and space classification (bean counting), for example, is absurd. I do not think that rates are somehow gamed in ways that create largesse, nor in real dollars does it significantly result in unchecked waste. It's not the rates that are exactly problematic as everyone seems to be fixed on.

The real issue here is government regulation - and I say this as a liberal. There are two key things going on here: one, administration of grants has had very little innovation since I started in the late 2000s. Yes, universities have purchased systems that are slightly more efficient at transmitting proposals to agencies, but on the post award side where we spend most of our time, we still manage complicated effort and large budgets on excel spreadsheets. I know there are tech companies that are earnestly trying to solve some of these massive inefficiencies - the computing power and technology are there, but the biggest factor is university adoption of such systems. They don't want a third party to have a connection to their data warehouses for security reasons. This makes the risk assessment and procurement process next to impossible for deploying technology that could drastically reduce complexity and administrative burden.

The second issue is the Federal government. You posted a COGR graph showing the regulatory burden that has exploded since Uniform Guidance went into effect in 2014. In my lived experience I can tell you that my work life has gotten increasingly worse since UG. Anyone that has had to manage a faculty members’ effort over the salary cap on 16 projects knows exactly what I'm talking about. The way grant effort is tracked and reported is insane. Procurement is another area, as is the lack of uniformity in post award actions at the sponsor level from how we request prior approval, the forms we use, the lack of clear guidance, etc, etc.

I think when people bring up efficiency, they are talking about administration, but many don’t understand that administration costs are capped at 26% (and have been since the 90’s). The “Administration” part of F&A is almost never fully recovered by institutions and is often a loss leader, so anything over 26% is really on the university (not taxpayers) and if they were smart and efficient they would get their admin costs closer to 26%. The Facilities part of an F&A rate are really the driver here. Because of this Universities are in some ways incentivized to grow and expand their campus footprint (as also pointed out), but to what extent I'm not sure. So, when people say things like incentivize efficiency, it sounds good, I just don't know how you operationalize that in terms of the actual rate agreement if we're talking about space being the main driver.

The real question I don't think is about indirect costs per se and whether the rates are “too high”- indirects are a laughably small portion of grant costs on a macro level and related to the federal budget. If you do the budget math for NIH, indirects work out to 20% of the proportion, with 80% to directs. I do wonder if we could get to a flat rate or a tiered flat rate that just treats all projects the same and gets rid of MTDC and everything that is administratively burdensome about having to justify rates in the first place. Universities would save loads of time if we stopped accounting for all our space. It would make training grants, for example less of a money pit and ultimately allow everyone to focus on more important things like actually doing and supporting research. Certainly, this could be modeled at a large scale to get an answer on the best approach.

I think we are saying much of the same thing, just slightly different. I would be interested in actual models to show if you could get to a lower effective, flat rate with significantly less burden involved.

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David desJardins's avatar

I'm not entirely convinced by this. One of the main problems with the current system is that it incentivizes inefficiency and disincentivizes efficiency. If a university makes its operations more efficient, then it gets less money from the federal government. I've seen this have real consequences for how universities think about investments and return on investment (e.g., expenditures that would come out of their own budget, which reduce their ongoing operating costs).

I think a flat rate (which would be around 50%, not 25% or 15%) would make sense. Note that cost of living, which you raise as a disparity between different institutions, is already part of direct costs -- if the indirect costs in an expensive urban area are higher, well, so are the direct costs, so the ratio should be similar. And, if the UC system has a particle accelerator, and we think that's a good thing, why should sociology grants be paying part of the cost of that? If that is actually worth having, there are probably better ways to pay for it!

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